tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post7893153526369052681..comments2024-02-29T11:45:01.870+01:00Comments on UK Armed Forces Commentary: Logistics, Army 2020, requirements and contractorsGabrielehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-29755658663413995662019-12-26T11:03:56.691+01:002019-12-26T11:03:56.691+01:00Hey. Hey. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-17398266693926642352019-12-26T10:58:00.989+01:002019-12-26T10:58:00.989+01:00hihiField engineerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08368954071302365577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-80281313380497764442012-07-31T22:32:51.390+02:002012-07-31T22:32:51.390+02:00@Daniele
"Another problem is that apart from...@Daniele<br /><br />"Another problem is that apart from truly patriotic sorts such as myself and others who support defence, most people do not care about cuts so long as they have their nice house and fancy car on the drive.<br />My view is pride in my country and in keeping Britain where we belong on the world stage."<br /><br />Well said, that man! My own sentiments exactly. Successive governments' treatment of the Armed Forces has nauseated me for years. Here we have India about to purchase a second aircraft carrier with catapults and all the trimmings we can't afford and yet we are still sending them large amounts of foreign aid, which a representative of their government has said they do not want! Insanity!MikeWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-59310503399322462382012-07-31T18:36:48.357+02:002012-07-31T18:36:48.357+02:00Somebody has to do it, and you are not even Britis...Somebody has to do it, and you are not even British! One of the problems with my country is that the government is so screwed up they are career politicians only interested in getting votes. That means mass benfits, foreign aid, money down the drain.<br />Another problem is that apart from truly patriotic sorts such as myself and others who support defence, most people do not care about cuts so long as they have their nice house and fancy car on the drive.<br />My view is pride in my country and in keeping Britain where we belong on the world stage. That is as a P5 member with the means to back it up. As you know, we have an incompetent MoD at the best of times!<br /><br />We will talk again now I have found this site!<br /><br />Salute!<br /><br />DanieleDaniele Mandellinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-52554213091348219172012-07-31T18:25:47.220+02:002012-07-31T18:25:47.220+02:00Now that explains it! Nice to know.
And yeah, i&...Now that explains it! Nice to know. <br /><br />And yeah, i've so far been unable to visit the UK directly. But my aspiration is to make a tour of the country in a couple of years' time, with the last destination of the trip being Rosyth, for the float-out of Queen Elizabeth. <br /><br />If i could do that travel, it sure would be awesome. <br /><br />Thank you again for your kind words, i'm glad you find my work useful and interesting.Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-8092418842295006772012-07-31T18:22:08.181+02:002012-07-31T18:22:08.181+02:00Yes. My father is Italian, mother is English, and ...Yes. My father is Italian, mother is English, and I have family in Roma!<br />But I was born in the UK and am British to the core.<br /><br />I have posted on military forums for many years but this is easily the best site on UK defence matters I have found. Really excellent.<br /><br />I note you have never been to the UK. You have an open invite from us here if you ever come to visit.<br /><br />I admire and respect your love and admiration for HM forces, the constant defence cuts since 1991 make me furious.Daniele Mandellinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-36523357782521746722012-07-31T18:02:49.313+02:002012-07-31T18:02:49.313+02:00Thank you very much.
Yous is a... very italian n...Thank you very much. <br /><br />Yous is a... very italian name, if i may note so. Italian origins?Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-23510645168874592642012-07-31T17:59:30.649+02:002012-07-31T17:59:30.649+02:00Excellent article Gabriele.
I thought I was knowl...Excellent article Gabriele.<br /><br />I thought I was knowledgeable on our armed forces but the details on this blog in your various articles are something else.<br />Pleased to have found it and study it daily.<br /><br />Regards from a fellow UK armed forces enthusiast.<br /><br />Daniele MandelliDaniele Mandellinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-55844835882082263572012-07-31T10:55:34.636+02:002012-07-31T10:55:34.636+02:00I think the error the MoD are making is having thi...I think the error the MoD are making is having this massively diverse range of manufacturers until the false impression that this competitive tendering for multiple individual contracts is actually cost effective. In my experience of working in the public sector it is not.<br /><br />In my opinion, one enormous contract covering all areas of the support vehicle fleet should have been awarded to a single provider - BAe with MAN, LM with Mercedes etc, and then the equipment manufacturer provide all class of vehicles required rather than this mismash of Oskhosh, MAN, IVECO etc.<br /><br />Not only would the size of the contract driven down the unit cost, but also there would be a reduction in the spares pipeline with most vehicles from the same manufacturer sharing parts. There would also be a reduction in training costs as most equipment from a manufacturer sharing a similar layout. <br /><br />Mercedes and MAN/VW for example offer everything from Minibuses and Vans up to the biggest of Tank Transporters with a variety of armour options on several vehicles.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17786170047109170017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-491952687593848852012-07-30T23:47:11.286+02:002012-07-30T23:47:11.286+02:00No, i don't think there's an armoured pod ...No, i don't think there's an armoured pod for infantry carriage. But i think there are reasonable margins for designing one: after all, the crew module of the Prime Mover is armored and NBC-proof: a good starting point. <br /><br />Assuming 2000+ kg weight for 14 soldiers with their equipment, there are still some 4 tons of payload margin for creating an armored pod for an HX60, ideally with a V-hull for some blast protection too, even though the best defence would probably be the possibility for the pod to detach from the chassis when a blast happens beneath. Better shaken by an harsh landing of the pod than blasted. <br />I think Marshall could pull something out, obviously accepting there would undoubtely be hard limits in protection levels that are unlikely to be overcome. <br /><br />But i'm not an engineer, so i can't say for sure.Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-4216654405519590072012-07-30T23:45:05.800+02:002012-07-30T23:45:05.800+02:00Gabriele
"because i announced days ago on he...Gabriele<br /><br />"because i announced days ago on here that i was going to talk about the C fleet, among other things, as Mike and others could confirm."<br /><br />I can certainly confirm that fact. The comment was dated 24th July 2012 and the TD article did not come out until the 27th. I've got an idea that you might even have mentioned it before the 24th.<br /><br />To other things. You mentioned the following:<br /><br />"The MAN SV trucks can be fitted with the Roush's ROPS (Roll-Over Protection System):"<br /><br />Do you know whether there is an armoured version of this system? If so, a MAN vehicle with an armoured infantry carrying pod could possibly help solve the problem of what will carry the Light Infantry in the new Army set-up.MikeWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-82378950126586532652012-07-30T23:39:51.676+02:002012-07-30T23:39:51.676+02:00Gabriele
"because i announced days ago on he...Gabriele<br /><br />"because i announced days ago on here that i was going to talk about the C fleet, among other things, as Mike and others could confirm."<br /><br />I can certainly confirm that fact. The comment was dated 24th July 2012 and the TD article did not come out until the 27th. I've got an idea that you might even have mentioned it before the 24th.<br /><br />To other things. You mentioned the following:<br /><br />"The MAN SV trucks can be fitted with the Roush's ROPS (Roll-Over Protection System):"<br /><br />Do you know whether there is an armoured version of this system? If so, a MAN vehicle with an armoured infantry carrying pod could possibly help solve the problem of what will carry the Light Infantry in the new Army set-up.MikeWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-67543465381281188282012-07-30T21:41:51.095+02:002012-07-30T21:41:51.095+02:00I think a Husky-based recovery vehicle is going to...I think a Husky-based recovery vehicle is going to be pretty seriously limited in what it can effectively do, so i'm not sure if that's going to be the definitive solution. It might be a stopgap. <br /><br />As for the MAN, there is "wrong" and "wrong". It should be perfectly compatible with the L118 in physical terms, as the 105 mm gun was clearly envisaged as a possible towed weapon, even if the demonstration was made with the M777. <br />It might be that the Army considers it too high and large, though.Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-86052351004508100382012-07-30T21:34:06.100+02:002012-07-30T21:34:06.100+02:00Actually, if i wanted to be hostile and cynic, i&#...Actually, if i wanted to be hostile and cynic, i'd say that Think Defence hurried publishing that article exactly because i announced days ago on here that i was going to talk about the C fleet, among other things, as Mike and others could confirm. <br /><br />And TD has no exclusive in talking about anything. So i feel like writing my own review, i do. <br />If you don't like it, i frankly do not care.Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-86552069869721099672012-07-30T21:14:04.939+02:002012-07-30T21:14:04.939+02:00Gabriele
Thanks for the replies. All interesting...Gabriele<br /><br />Thanks for the replies. All interesting.<br /><br />One or two more questions:<br /><br />1) I see that a Recovery version of the Husky has been developed. If successful I suppose it could solve the problem of the Light Recovery Vehicle replacement, especially as the Husky is in service with 16 AA Bde already (I think). Trouble is, it doesn't look like a proper Recovery Vehicle, with only a couple of raisable ramps at the rear.<br /><br />2)I think one reason that the DAF was retained in the gun tractor role was that the MAN 6-tonne is slightly the wrong height at the rear for such a role with the Light Gun. Do you whether that is the case?MikeWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-64859295898507782672012-07-30T20:48:55.459+02:002012-07-30T20:48:55.459+02:00http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/07/british-army...http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/07/british-army-c-vehicles/<br /><br />You shameless man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-14949367059364419392012-07-30T20:27:39.932+02:002012-07-30T20:27:39.932+02:00The Heavy Wheeled Tractors are still considered in...The Heavy Wheeled Tractors are still considered indispensable for clearing runways of unexploded submunitions and other ordnance, it seems. <br />Unfortunately, the Army did not consider the Heavy Wheely fit for deployment to Afghanistan, but i was glad to learn about the plan for keeping them around, at least. <br /><br />I think the same approach is being used for other vehicles too, but i don't have the details. <br /><br />And yes, i didn't directly mention ALL vehicles in the C fleet. I focused on the new ones, or on the most impressive bits of legacy fleet. <br />You do mention two very important machines though. Let's see. <br /><br />The DEUCE was acquired in 15 units, one of which for testing. <br />Both the DEUCE and KALMAR were given to ALC for management as part of the legacy fleet, but at the moment i don't have details about their current status. <br /><br />They should both be still in use, though. The KALMAR i'd dare saying is for sure in use, and pretty damn intensive use at that. It was bought quite recently, in 2003 as a UOR, 10 + 10 units, to complement the older Terex Rough Terrain Container Handlers. <br /><br />As for EPLS problems on the MAN truck, i know that the MAN offers little to no rear visibility, so the EPLS is fitted with rear-looking cameras and display in the cab. <br />It should not be a problem calling for a change of chassis, though.Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-13747265242929912692012-07-30T19:51:50.203+02:002012-07-30T19:51:50.203+02:00Gabriele
Brilliant stuff! A thoroughly researche...Gabriele<br /><br />Brilliant stuff! A thoroughly researched and comprehensive examination of the”C” vehicle fleet.. Makes for more interesting reading than some of the articles one reads in books and elsewhere on “A” and “B” vehicles (I don’t mean articles on this website!)<br /><br />Just one or two comments and questions:<br /><br /> 1) “This includes 16 Armoured Heavy Wheeled Tractors, enormous beasts of 37 tons. There were originally 25, transferred to ALC in 2005, but the requirement was lowered and 9 were sold by ALC. These huge, very expensive and not-normally very used vehicles are being kept available for service by putting half of them into Controlled Humidity Environments, effectively mothballing them the remainder are re-lifed by putting them through a refurbishment programme. Halfway through the contract the equipment will be swapped around and the storage fleet will be re-lifed. This way the fleet will effectively only age 7 years during the 15 year contract and there will always be a small number of modern and up-to-date kit ready on call.”<br /><br />What an imaginative and resourceful way of solving the problem of extending the life of this very useful vehicle. I would imagine it was indispensable to ADR units.<br /><br />2) Have you heard any more about the possibility of putting the LHS on Trakker rather than going with the MAN EPLS system? I’m sure I read somewhere a problem with the MAN-based system was a lack of a certain area of visibility to the rear of the vehicle (but I can’t remember the details).<br /><br />3) I said “comprehensive” above but I’ve now remembered two vehicles that you have not yet mentioned : the KALMAR Rough Terrain Container Handler and the “Deuce” Light Tracked Dozer. Any chance of a brief mention of these two when you are less busy (although of course you might have deliberately not mentioned them because they are already legacy vehicles).MikeWnoreply@blogger.com