tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post734454442749841224..comments2024-02-29T11:45:01.870+01:00Comments on UK Armed Forces Commentary: Regarding Maritime Patrol Aircrafts Gabrielehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-34505550060099113812014-02-01T20:14:22.287+01:002014-02-01T20:14:22.287+01:00Nothing in this about a C-295 MPA option. I'd ...Nothing in this about a C-295 MPA option. I'd be interested to read how you think it would compare to the Sea Hercules and the P-8.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-78912913246048411952013-09-03T21:56:20.111+02:002013-09-03T21:56:20.111+02:00Might be...Might be...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-6983711912253682612013-09-03T15:26:42.670+02:002013-09-03T15:26:42.670+02:00Thank you for visiting, reading and commenting!
Ar...Thank you for visiting, reading and commenting!<br />Are you part of the "few" of the SEEDCORN project, then? Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-8243847197248914682013-09-03T02:51:38.353+02:002013-09-03T02:51:38.353+02:00Thanks for some well researched articles! I have t...Thanks for some well researched articles! I have to say, if you want carriers with F35s onboard, there is only one answer: P8.<br />An ex-Nimrod, current P8 aircrew guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-5212651262225066902013-07-06T12:55:41.869+02:002013-07-06T12:55:41.869+02:00The main reason that the RAF didn't have booms...The main reason that the RAF didn't have booms installed on the Voyager is they don't want to pay for the training stream. The Globemaster have the wing centre box fuel tanks which allow greater range. Most tasking the Globemaster have more then enough range and if not they stop at a friendly airport to top up the fuel tanks. The cost of adding the booms and adding a training stream vs landing and refuelling is significantly more.<br /><br />The E3D Sentry are the only type to use the boom as it adds tactical flexibility making the training stream for the flight crew worth it.<br /><br />The RC-135W have the range in most cases to not need RAF specific refuelling assets and they can top off from allied tankers. Considering they are going to slot into the USAF maintenance stream it is illogical making them a unique subtype just to add a probe.<br /><br />What is being proposed for Poseidon is similar to RC-135W as far as I can see it with the aircraft being operated with the USN maintenance stream. So the loss of probe capability has to be balanced against the cost of adding it. For example if a UK Poseidon (notice I don't say RAF or FAA) has to support a rescue mission deep into the Atlantic where it needs refuelling support maybe the easier solution is for a USAF tanker out of Mildenhall to support the mission. That way the training stream is purely for the pilots of the MPA like our E3D Sentry.<br /><br />Another note if we adopt Poseidon why bother qualify Stingray on the type. They are getting on a bit and preumably all allocated to FAA helicopter squadrons. Isn't more logical just to operate what the USN use, again maximising commonality and ensuring the UK are not operating unique sub variants. Actually the only thing I would want over the USN examples is the MAD boom which the Indians do have. Considering the UK already owns the CAE MAD sensor that were purchased for the MRA4 which I presume are similar to the CAE sensor purchased for the Indian examples of the P8 and the software is in place it seems to be logical clawing back of expenditure.Fedaykinhttp://forum.keypublishing.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-1653225476192621572013-07-04T23:26:36.040+02:002013-07-04T23:26:36.040+02:00... and that;s the problem - THE MOD !
Returning ...... and that;s the problem - THE MOD !<br /><br />Returning to the Sea Herc, not sure I like the refurb C130 ida - we got into many many problems with converting old airframes with Nimrod, need i remind every one...<br />Despite the P8 range and twin engine layout , its looked ths only real show in town for a long time now - just do n't let the crabs fly it! FLY NAVY ! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-15567278027022398902013-06-28T21:27:29.161+02:002013-06-28T21:27:29.161+02:00It technically is possible, i guess. Whether the M...It technically is possible, i guess. Whether the MOD would consider it, i have no idea. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-26349249776302901212013-06-28T19:37:15.491+02:002013-06-28T19:37:15.491+02:00Take yr point on Lockheed's experience and ead...Take yr point on Lockheed's experience and eads lack but what about another idea - Used A330 airframes are available or becoming avail - Possibly ex-Virgin- so cost might not be such a killer. That gives commonality with Voyager and a real fast jet solution . Where did Boeing get the know-how for the P8 ? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-50748076191893642122013-06-26T23:15:22.063+02:002013-06-26T23:15:22.063+02:00It would be expensive as an airframe, but the real...It would be expensive as an airframe, but the real problem is that EADS can't quite bring to the table an experience in the MPA field even remotely comparable to that of Lochkeed, which can build on the planetary success of the P3 Orion. <br />In addition to that, Lochkeed has already vast experience in developing and integrating complex palletized mission systems on the C130, from Harvest Hawk to Vigilant Hawk and the US SOF gunship kit. <br />With the C130, there is a solid base on which to build with relatively low costs and risks. With the A400, there is no real base, which means facing much higher risks. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-23007913172579374442013-06-26T23:10:01.651+02:002013-06-26T23:10:01.651+02:00What about the A400M as a airframe for MPA? Good r...What about the A400M as a airframe for MPA? Good range and jet like speed. Would bring common airframe with the transport version. Would bring UK jobs when compared with new build sea herc or P8. Can take fuel on from its probe. I guess the only downside would be cost if compared with refurbished hercs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-58394401093647913882013-06-24T15:25:46.795+02:002013-06-24T15:25:46.795+02:00I don't really know the aircraft that well. I ...I don't really know the aircraft that well. I believe, though, that the fleet has been grounded in these days because of a problem. <br /><br />I think that, even with the collaboration talks, it is pretty much unthinkable to see the UK buying the P.1. Also because i seem to remember that it is not cheap at all. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-15835174155664176662013-06-24T15:23:38.891+02:002013-06-24T15:23:38.891+02:00Gabriele, As always thanks for the article. What y...Gabriele, As always thanks for the article. What your opinion on the Japanese and their Kawasaki P. I am aware that David Cameron had signed 'some' agreement for military RD collaboration between the respective countries ? Any thoughts ?Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-33889648066418846032013-06-24T13:50:49.662+02:002013-06-24T13:50:49.662+02:00I see your point, but despite the several flying A...I see your point, but despite the several flying A330 fitted with booms, there might not be much in the way of optimism for the RAF's ones, which are likely as ready for the boom as they are ready for the probe. If not less. <br />Only 7 out of 14 airplanes on order have any built-in arrangement for the centerline refueling point, and of these 7, 5 are being fitted with a centerline drogue. I don't know how much of a problem it would be to try and change minds and go for the boom... Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-91899977215321795222013-06-24T13:46:05.365+02:002013-06-24T13:46:05.365+02:00Agreed, and hopefully that's what the 'una...Agreed, and hopefully that's what the 'unallocated headroom' in the Equipment Plan can begin to address. However, people will need to be realistic - the margin is pretty slim, and there will be a *lot* competing for that money, especially whatever currently sits at the top of the 'whiteboard'. Now I'm off to read the DRP to see if it's a good argument as to why the MPA should be at the top!<br /><br />PS - you're right about the Nimrod and Storm Shadow; when I visited Waddington in 2010 there was a mock up model of a Nimrod which showed at least an aspiration to mount four Storm Shadows on wing pylons.The Securocratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-43339766361904047952013-06-24T13:41:56.205+02:002013-06-24T13:41:56.205+02:00I am not so sure about relative expense. I know o...I am not so sure about relative expense. I know of no 737 airframe that has ever been certified with a probe or the plumbing around the cockpit - The Securocrat's comment is highly relevant - whereas the KC-30 boom is about to be certified after years of effort by Airbus.<br />I am sure RAF refuelling aircrew fly on exchange with the USAF KC-135s and will have some cross-experience.<br />However I DO AGREE there is NO way MOD will want to re-open the Private Financing arrangement for the Voyager fleet for any significant modifications.Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-30833866675081660852013-06-24T13:25:26.395+02:002013-06-24T13:25:26.395+02:00That is another option, but it is no doubt going t...That is another option, but it is no doubt going to be even more expensive as it adds not just a new bit of equipment (the boom), but also a whole new operating method with related training needs, since the RAF has only ever been dispensing fuel with the probe and drogue method. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-39211830613551880672013-06-24T13:23:29.848+02:002013-06-24T13:23:29.848+02:00An alternative is to fit some of the Voyagers with...An alternative is to fit some of the Voyagers with booms - about to be certified on the KC-30s for RAAF, Saudi and UAE. That would let RAF refuel their C-17s and EC-135s.Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-8047952612438620472013-06-24T13:12:19.292+02:002013-06-24T13:12:19.292+02:00That's true, but my personal feeling is that w...That's true, but my personal feeling is that we have gone from one extreme to another. Today, any little addition or modification takes years and years and ever escalating costs. A search for a more balanced "happy medium" is one of those things that are badly needed if we want to avoid having the military grinding to a standstill. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-40640096691750852172013-06-24T12:41:04.038+02:002013-06-24T12:41:04.038+02:00Some caution might be appropriate on that last com...Some caution might be appropriate on that last comment, which shows that just because something may be possible, it isn't necessarily wise. Remember, the report into the loss of XV230 highlighted the fact that the speed with which the air-to-air refuelling system was fitted to the MR2s started a trend where successive modifications to Nimrod weren't considered as a whole. <br /><br />The Securocrat The Securocratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-62926065549763607362013-06-24T10:24:36.004+02:002013-06-24T10:24:36.004+02:00It can't be risk free, no. But i can't bel...It can't be risk free, no. But i can't believe they can't put a probe on them, if you ask me. The Sentry in RAF service was fited ages ago, with no problems. The Nimrod itself, back in 1982, was fitted with probes in just 18 days. <br />In my opinion, what stopped the addition of probes was the cost, more than anything else. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-74296119223998813472013-06-24T10:19:59.634+02:002013-06-24T10:19:59.634+02:00Correction - last sentence should read: Boeing doe...Correction - last sentence should read: Boeing does not fit probes to the NATO E-3.. Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-30225062511129066162013-06-24T10:14:09.061+02:002013-06-24T10:14:09.061+02:00Hi Gabriele - your comment about fitting a refuell...Hi Gabriele - your comment about fitting a refuelling probe to the P-8 may be problematic. The Australian E-737 was specified to have probe as well as boom receptacle but Boeing convinced RAAF it would have aerodynamic consequences. Boeing does not fit booms to the NATO E-3 aircraft or to the forthcoming RAF EC-135s.<br />Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-74981539733291599922013-06-23T01:30:18.088+02:002013-06-23T01:30:18.088+02:00I see nothing wrong with my answer. I could say yo...I see nothing wrong with my answer. I could say you sounded rather aggressive yourself, indeed, and still do. It would be no use to be protesting outside the MOD and i believe you are fully aware of it. And the absence of sub-harpoon is not at all the most urgent of problems. Nonetheless, it is part of one of the many problems. Spearfish is a relatively short range, extremely expensive, anti-submarine optimised weapon. Sending the SSN hunting enemy warships armed only with the Spearfish is not very smart. It is, under some points of view, overkill (aka: too expensive and sophisticated) and, on the other side, too risky as the engagement could be done at a safer distance if the missiles were still available. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-75142790577074086522013-06-23T01:03:51.792+02:002013-06-23T01:03:51.792+02:00Can you be a bit kinder whne replying. You have a ...Can you be a bit kinder whne replying. You have a rather arrogant way of talking as if you have a monopoly over military info.<br /><br />On your point, you think I dont know about that LRASM development?<br /><br />What's wrong with RN subs not having Harpoon? Why arent you protesting outside the MOD then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-442909239199162925.post-35564921396451120182013-06-22T20:50:48.409+02:002013-06-22T20:50:48.409+02:00Yeah, there was an aspiration to put Storm Shadow ...Yeah, there was an aspiration to put Storm Shadow and perhaps even other weapons on the MRA4. It would have been a truly formidable machine, that's for sure. Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.com